There have been attempts to formulate official-type or canonical definitions of anti-Semitism. I have no interest in them and will not try to dissect any. I don’t need any guidance. Unfortunately, others do, including some of those currently protesting Israeli atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank. Including some on the Left.
This is very interesting, and I learned a lot from it. But I think that you are not completely correct in describing the history of Zionism - you say that your family's history in Patterson, NJ history "well predates Zionism, which was barely a blip on the radar screen before 1940." But Einstein, scarcely an obscure figure, was already a (secular) Zionist by 1920. Moreover, in 1921 he traveled to the U.S. as part of a Zionist delegation to raise money for Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Einstein, though, tried when possible to separate his public appearances from Chaim Weizmann's. And Einstein, then and always, stressed the need for peace with the Palestinians. Much later, in April 1938, in an address in New York City he said "I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. Apart from practical consideration, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest."
Yes, England’s Balfour Declaration declaring a Jewish homeland in Palestine occurred in 1917. My father, Albert Edward Cohen, born in 1919 was named for the British prince who was one of the movers behind the Declaration. So Zionism was a thing back then, but, as your description of Einstein indicates, this did not NECESSARILY mean creation of a Jewish STATE like that which Israel became.
My sense of the prominence of Zionism before 1940 is based on my reading and family experience. Note it is in comparison to alternative perspectives. Of course it had advocates well before WWII. I'm well aware the colonization campaign began in the 19th Century, My impression is that it never amounted to much. Without the Holocaust, it's not obvious there would be a Jewish state anywhere.
Historically of course Israel was part of religious discourse, but it was more like a Never-Never Land than the serious project it became with Weizmann.
Off topic a bit. Max. Sorry but I reply I am thinking of putting on NS on the thread entitled I "Quite DSA"
"I say "Yes" to changing name and "NO" to dithering over principles of the renamed internet forum. Certainly many of us can tolerate a bit of eclecticism or diversity of opinion
on a small internet forum. There are for only 45 views for instance on this thread! I have viewed in about 5 times myself.
I will defer to Comrade Buhle on whether Debs supported Zionism or would have supported Zionism as actually practiced from roughly 1886 to the present in Israel.
Hi Gerry. It's especially dangerous to make generalizations about Zionism, which has undergone enormous changes over time. This piece is especially illuminating in that regard:
This is very interesting, and I learned a lot from it. But I think that you are not completely correct in describing the history of Zionism - you say that your family's history in Patterson, NJ history "well predates Zionism, which was barely a blip on the radar screen before 1940." But Einstein, scarcely an obscure figure, was already a (secular) Zionist by 1920. Moreover, in 1921 he traveled to the U.S. as part of a Zionist delegation to raise money for Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Einstein, though, tried when possible to separate his public appearances from Chaim Weizmann's. And Einstein, then and always, stressed the need for peace with the Palestinians. Much later, in April 1938, in an address in New York City he said "I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. Apart from practical consideration, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest."
Yes, England’s Balfour Declaration declaring a Jewish homeland in Palestine occurred in 1917. My father, Albert Edward Cohen, born in 1919 was named for the British prince who was one of the movers behind the Declaration. So Zionism was a thing back then, but, as your description of Einstein indicates, this did not NECESSARILY mean creation of a Jewish STATE like that which Israel became.
My sense of the prominence of Zionism before 1940 is based on my reading and family experience. Note it is in comparison to alternative perspectives. Of course it had advocates well before WWII. I'm well aware the colonization campaign began in the 19th Century, My impression is that it never amounted to much. Without the Holocaust, it's not obvious there would be a Jewish state anywhere.
Historically of course Israel was part of religious discourse, but it was more like a Never-Never Land than the serious project it became with Weizmann.
I appreciate the note about Einstein.
This is very timely relative to my post, and much more erudite:
https://frdhfirstroughdraftofhistory.substack.com/p/the-idea-of-return-a-pre-history
Off topic a bit. Max. Sorry but I reply I am thinking of putting on NS on the thread entitled I "Quite DSA"
"I say "Yes" to changing name and "NO" to dithering over principles of the renamed internet forum. Certainly many of us can tolerate a bit of eclecticism or diversity of opinion
on a small internet forum. There are for only 45 views for instance on this thread! I have viewed in about 5 times myself.
I will defer to Comrade Buhle on whether Debs supported Zionism or would have supported Zionism as actually practiced from roughly 1886 to the present in Israel.
Hi Gerry. It's especially dangerous to make generalizations about Zionism, which has undergone enormous changes over time. This piece is especially illuminating in that regard:
https://frdhfirstroughdraftofhistory.substack.com/p/the-idea-of-return-a-pre-history