I checked out of the debate after 15 minutes. I knew we were in trouble after 15 seconds. Trump must have known it too, since he declined to take much advantage of Biden’s numerous and evident disabilities. He just poured out his poison. I keep thinking of Ruth Bader Ginsberg, another old biddy past her sell-by date whose refusal to resign when a Democratic replacement was feasible gave us the current intolerable 6-3 Trumpy Supreme Court. I also think back to Sergeant Shriver, whose 11th hour replacement of Tom Eagleton in 1972 did not save George McGovern.
You are doing good, making important points in your writing -- as usual. And your readers might consider the path of activism: contact their local Democratic Party affiliate, and volunteer to canvass, make phone calls (including from home), write post cards.
Persuading the opposition is less important and less feasible than getting out allied individuals' votes. Get out the vote, GOTV! It's not too early to contact the Democratic Party and let them get you started.
So Larry, What is the appeal the Democrats should be making? Economic? Social Justice? etc. Perhaps, too many democrats assumed that they could run on these issues. But it would seem that about half of the country finds Trump more appealing. Why it that Larry. Does it have something to do with the progressive going to their base--- which is smaller and smaller? Larry, the Democratic Party here in Minnesota does not exist -- as a party (there are no precinct organizations any more -- in other words there is no grassroots structure to the party.
Democrats should be running on reproductive rights and support for democracy. They can point out that Trump sabotaged a bipartisan plan to address immigration issues because not solving the problem helps him politically.
If it does any good, they can point out that increases in prices (inflation) have slowed even if prices themselves (the popular conception of inflation?) mostly haven't come back down.
Re "the Democratic Party here in Minnesota does not exist": Minnesota has twice has many Democratic members of the U.S. Congress as Republican Congressman. Both US Senators are Democrats. Democrats hold the offices of governor, attorney general, and secretary of state. They have a majority in the state House and a bare majority in the state Senate. Contact information for each county's Democratic affiliate is at https://dfl.org/counties/ to see about local activism, which really helps!
Finally, Trump's appeal is often to the low-information voter. As he put it in 2016, "I love the poorly educated."
Biden needs to step aside and allow the Democrats an open convention. A ticket that would be an effective compromise between different factions of the party (yes we would have to compromise) would be Whitmer-Warnock. But in any case, Biden needs to step aside so that we are spared being led by a government of sociopaths
Biden looked and sounded worse than the transcript shows. He's still capable of providing a more sensible answer to the questions asked. Trump, to use Bannon's memorable phrase, flooded the zone with shit. Biden was overwhelmed, unable to effectively respond in 1 or 2 minutes.
Naaah, Max, please take your finger off the panic button. We saw this thing differently than the voting population. Debating skills are a small part of politics. And fuck the NYT. Here is what I shared yesterday elsewhere:
=============================
Like everyone else, it made me ill. Slept very poorly last night, just waking up from a nice afternoon nap. This morning I was at the point of, “if Joe wants to go, let him.” Maybe Jill could prevail on him. It would have to be that way, no public challenge would work, but I was ready for that.
But this morning, I had an incident that put it in a different light. Mark is a friend of mine, leader of our cycling group. He’s a Republican, twice and likely three times a Trump voter. He’s not intellectually curious, doesn’t read, gets his news from Fox and Newsmax. He’s not an obnoxious MAGA, not in your face, but he is who he is. (This is a distinction one learns to make in Tucson.)
The guys in the neighborhood get together regularly for morning coffee. Today, the first words I heard out of Mark’s mouth at coffee were “Everything Trump said last night was a lie.” He had nothing whatsoever to say about Biden. Doesn’t mean he’ll vote for Joe, but he said it. It’s revealing of - - - something, don’t ask me what.
What I think it means is that for us, the debate was a kick in the teeth. For people like Mark, it was what he thought all along, no surprise! But rather than confirming him in his opinion, he was now face to face with Trump’s real character. There are probably others like him. That tells me Joe can possibly ride this out, if he chooses to.
You are doing good, making important points in your writing -- as usual. And your readers might consider the path of activism: contact their local Democratic Party affiliate, and volunteer to canvass, make phone calls (including from home), write post cards.
Persuading the opposition is less important and less feasible than getting out allied individuals' votes. Get out the vote, GOTV! It's not too early to contact the Democratic Party and let them get you started.
So Larry, What is the appeal the Democrats should be making? Economic? Social Justice? etc. Perhaps, too many democrats assumed that they could run on these issues. But it would seem that about half of the country finds Trump more appealing. Why it that Larry. Does it have something to do with the progressive going to their base--- which is smaller and smaller? Larry, the Democratic Party here in Minnesota does not exist -- as a party (there are no precinct organizations any more -- in other words there is no grassroots structure to the party.
Democrats should be running on reproductive rights and support for democracy. They can point out that Trump sabotaged a bipartisan plan to address immigration issues because not solving the problem helps him politically.
If it does any good, they can point out that increases in prices (inflation) have slowed even if prices themselves (the popular conception of inflation?) mostly haven't come back down.
Re "the Democratic Party here in Minnesota does not exist": Minnesota has twice has many Democratic members of the U.S. Congress as Republican Congressman. Both US Senators are Democrats. Democrats hold the offices of governor, attorney general, and secretary of state. They have a majority in the state House and a bare majority in the state Senate. Contact information for each county's Democratic affiliate is at https://dfl.org/counties/ to see about local activism, which really helps!
Finally, Trump's appeal is often to the low-information voter. As he put it in 2016, "I love the poorly educated."
Bob Kuttner is right:
Biden needs to step aside and allow the Democrats an open convention. A ticket that would be an effective compromise between different factions of the party (yes we would have to compromise) would be Whitmer-Warnock. But in any case, Biden needs to step aside so that we are spared being led by a government of sociopaths
https://prospect.org/politics/2024-06-28-tarnished-silver-lining-trump-biden-debate/
That might improve our chances but it is not happening.
I expect you're right
You're right, Max. And only Jill can talk him down off his ledge.
For those of us who turned it off early (I'm one), I suggest looking at the transcript:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html
Biden looked and sounded worse than the transcript shows. He's still capable of providing a more sensible answer to the questions asked. Trump, to use Bannon's memorable phrase, flooded the zone with shit. Biden was overwhelmed, unable to effectively respond in 1 or 2 minutes.
Italy? How is it's government better than a Trump government? Anyway, you can't escape nuclear war. I will stay and fight.
I was skeptical but I have friends, still left, who have emigrated there and have been living there for a while. That's what they tell me.
Naaah, Max, please take your finger off the panic button. We saw this thing differently than the voting population. Debating skills are a small part of politics. And fuck the NYT. Here is what I shared yesterday elsewhere:
=============================
Like everyone else, it made me ill. Slept very poorly last night, just waking up from a nice afternoon nap. This morning I was at the point of, “if Joe wants to go, let him.” Maybe Jill could prevail on him. It would have to be that way, no public challenge would work, but I was ready for that.
But this morning, I had an incident that put it in a different light. Mark is a friend of mine, leader of our cycling group. He’s a Republican, twice and likely three times a Trump voter. He’s not intellectually curious, doesn’t read, gets his news from Fox and Newsmax. He’s not an obnoxious MAGA, not in your face, but he is who he is. (This is a distinction one learns to make in Tucson.)
The guys in the neighborhood get together regularly for morning coffee. Today, the first words I heard out of Mark’s mouth at coffee were “Everything Trump said last night was a lie.” He had nothing whatsoever to say about Biden. Doesn’t mean he’ll vote for Joe, but he said it. It’s revealing of - - - something, don’t ask me what.
What I think it means is that for us, the debate was a kick in the teeth. For people like Mark, it was what he thought all along, no surprise! But rather than confirming him in his opinion, he was now face to face with Trump’s real character. There are probably others like him. That tells me Joe can possibly ride this out, if he chooses to.
I heard he looked sharp in North Carolina today.
I agree I did over-react.